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Trump sincerely wants to make US better
in Politics
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Does he want middle America to thrive? That depends. It depends on whether their thriving in any way infringes on he himself thriving. He can speak out for things like coal because he really doesn't have any money riding on it. But then again, if the people who really do want to give him money or spend money at his resorts all said screw the coal people and we'll make you a better deal, he'd take the better deal. Because it's really all about him.
Mark my words, he will never live anywhere that does not serve his life of luxury, and he only needs the common man for suckering votes, because none of you are ever going to spend the type of money he wants paid at his properties. Indeed when he was confronted over his cabinet makeup he went out of his way to make it clear he only wants rich people around him because anyone who isn't is just a loser, and why would you want losers in charge?
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This doesn't mean he's a good daddy.
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So, I'll just put this out there: can anyone here realistically assess Trump's intentions? I mean, so far, @love2debate, @joecavalry, @yolostide, and @someone234 have all just asserted their positions. @Grenache has spelled his position out a little more, but it's still just a long series of assertions about what motivates Trump without any support. Perhaps each of you would find some way to support your positions based on what he's actually done or said, but I can't for the life of me figure out how that would demonstrate his sincerity, or lack thereof.
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I still think what I wrote is fair because he most definitely is a wealthy man who has surrounded himself with other wealthy people and spent his first year rebuilding Washington to get the taxes and regulators and evironmental concerns out of their way so they can make even more money. How can that NOT be Trump's America? And the fame and center of attention component is also something he wears with pride and cultivates himself.
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I disagree. I'm not here to just assert my opinion. If my goal was to support or oppose this resolution, I'd provide evidence or at the very least substantial warrants behind that position. I think stating that we should hold ourselves, as debaters, to a better standard than that is not a stretch.
I'm not here to defend Trump, but your argument is, at best, tangential to the topic at hand. You're essentially asserting that Trump DOES want to make the US better, but that it's his version of "better." Maybe your argument is that that version isn't actually better, but that's a whole other argument. We're talking about intent here, not the results of his actual policies or personnel selection.
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One way is by reviewing the results, which are nothing less than spectacular.
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Pray tell, how does that allow us to assess the sincerity of Trump's motives? I'm honestly asking because I can't for the life of me understand it. Let's assume that every single policy direction Trump has taken and will ever take is successful in invigorating the country and improving things for every single person. Does that show his sincerity? Do you have to be sincere to be successful? Or, if your point is that everything he's done has been spectacularly awful, then the same applies. Does the lack of success show a lack of sincerity?
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The answer to your questions
whiteflame said: Is yes.
If you state that you want the invigorate the U.S. Economy and then you take action and succeed in invigorating the U.S. economy...then this is a prime example of your actions reflecting your sincere intentions. We have but actions to rely upon in all instances of opinion regarding people's sincerity of intention...there's not another metric of measurement. If someone says "I love America" then we have but to evaluate the actions of that person, and if their actions reflect their ideology then we can deduce that they are sincere in their intentions.
Likewise if you say that you want to invigorate the U.S. economy and then you fail to act in any way to do so and consequently fail...then YES...we can safely deduce that the actions of that person do NOT reflect their intent and they are therefor insincere about their desire to invigorate the economy.
It's that simple.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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Unless he's sincerely trying to ruin the US and is making a complete disaster of it, then yes, results are an indicator of sincerity.
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As far as making the U.S. a better place, Trump has done some amazing things...most of which won't find the light in our current Media save a few outlets.
He recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Four American presidents promised to do it, but only one actually did. This is why the American people elected Trump. He does what he promises to do, for better or for worse — in this case, definitely for the better.
He got NATO allies to kick in $12 billion more toward our collective security. Decades of pleading by the Bush and Obama administrations failed to get NATO allies to meet their financial commitments to the alliance, but Trump's tough talk and reticence to affirm America's Article V commitment did the trick. NATO is stronger as a result.
He has virtually eliminated the Islamic State's physical caliphate. Trump removed the constraints Obama placed on our military and let it drive the terrorists from their strongholds.
He admitted he was wrong on Afghanistan and reversed Obama's disastrous withdrawal. In a rare admission, Trump declared: "My original instinct was to pull out. ... But all my life, I've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office. ... A hasty withdrawal would create a vacuum for terrorists."
He enacted historic tax and regulatory reform that has unleashed economic growth. Trump signed the first comprehensive tax reform in three decades and removed the wet blanket of Obama-era regulations smothering our economy. We are now heading into our third consecutive quarter of above 3 percent growth. Something that Obama said couldn't be done. Boosted by US economy figures and a global markets boom, the Dow Jones stock market index hit a record high, passing the 25,000 mark for the first time. Markets in the US had been boosted by the Republicans’ tax reforms and job growth figures. It means the Dow has surged by more than 31 per cent since Mr Trump’s inauguration.
The stimulation of the economy has resulted in the absolute lowest unemployment rate in 17 years. Specifically Women's unemployment is the lowest in 18 years.
Most importantly, and this is just my opinion, he kept Hillary Clinton out of the Oval Office.
Trump's definitely not a popular guy, in fact I'd say safely that most people think he's an A$$hole, but the President isn't in that position to be a "Yes man" to the citizens of our Country. We don't elect presidents to pander to our wants...we put them there to make the tough decisions based on what's best for our Country. That being said...he's a Human being and he's not perfect...at least he's not doubling the U.S. debt and telling everyone that it's for the best.
No one cares that he said "Sh!thole Countries", if he even did. No one cares that he tweets things that people find offensive. No one cares that he fans the flames on sensitive topics. And when I say "No one cares" I mean that no one of any consequence spends more than 10 minutes either being offended or shrugging their shoulders at petty things Trump says. It's inconsequential and if it wasn't...something would have been done about it already...so far nothing has.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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I'm not pro-Clintons. I'm not pro-Democrat. In fact I'm a moderate independent and believe both major parties have been screwing the public and blocking out attempts to stop them.
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Beyond that, how can we assess the sincerity of an immeasurable or complex intention? In this case, we're talking about the desire to make the US better. It's partially a matter of the economy, so that is a measurable metric. But how do we measure betterment of foreign or domestic policy? Can we even measure those without inputting a substantial amount of subjectivity regarding what is "good" policy and what is "bad" policy? Maybe that's a decent basis for debate, but then the question morphs from "Does Trump sincerely want to make the US better?" to "Has the Trump presidency been net beneficial to the US?" Maybe the two are intimately tied together, though that seems to turn away from Trump's personal intentions.
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So we can presume he meant what he said, since he has accomplished them.
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If a baseball player says he wants to hit a home run, but then he strikes out, does that mean he never wanted to hit a home run? Was he being insincere when he said he wanted to, or was he foiled by the opposition?
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The only other arguments to be made are that it's either an accident, or else Trump is sincerely trying to ruin the country and failing miserably.
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At last, someone presents something that indicates why we should believe his sincerity. Honestly, though I disagree with the logic you're providing, I don't really wish to argue it because this is all I've been looking for from the start: an explanation that delves into his motives and why they are likely the result of a sincere desire to help better the US. So, I appreciate the explanation. I do believe there are complicating factors that make judging his sincerity more complicated than you're making it out to be (and I have looked into the subject in some detail), but as I say, I don't wish to argue it. All I wanted to see was someone who actually delved into why his motives likely align or don't align with a desire to benefit to benefit the US, and you've delivered that. Again, much appreciated.
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I also disagree with your assertions regarding what other arguments there are. I've seen numerous people argue that the benefits we see as a country are secondary to the benefits received by specific subsets of the population, and that the benefits to the country at large pale in comparison to the benefits to those subsets. The argument even allows that Trump has benefited the US, but that those benefits come at a larger cost that will come to bear over time. This is part of what I'm getting at: we can't judge intentions based on outcomes because, realistically, we can't judge the outcomes this early in his presidency. And, if things do generally turn out negative for the US in the next couple of years, there may be a lot of contributing factors to those negative outcomes, many of which may be outside of Trump's control. At that point, others could easily use your same arguments to contend that Trump has no sincere desire to benefit the US because he hasn't benefited the US.
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I'm absolutely no fan of his, and I think his policy directions will cause far more harm than good. The falsehoods in his speeches and Twitter posts do nothing but damage the office of the presidency and US credibility. Does their occurrence mean that he doesn't want to make the US better? I don't think so. If your sole goal here is just to chew out Trump for much of what he's done and said, be my guest. I'm only stating that we can't know whether he's done any of the things he's done while in office out of an intentional desire to better the US or not. I do think it's reasonable for us to ask the question and debate which motives play the biggest roles in his decision-making, but that's a separate issue from the outcomes.
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And while it's true that some subsets have been helped more (black and women unemployment at lowest level in years), rather than be envious, we should be happy for them.
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I was actually talking about how some groups that were well off to begin with are being helped quite a bit more by this administration, but that's besides the point. My point was that there are alternative explanations that don't require malicious intent. He can be sincere, but not in the way you're trying to argue.
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His words and actions have clearly improved the country, regardless of any unprovable predictions about the future.
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As for the rest of what you've said here, a lot of it is personal bias. You say he's delivered on all of his promises, which I'd say is factually inaccurate. He's TRIED to deliver on them, but many of his policy directions have not been turned into actual policy changes. You can say that that shows his sincerity, but as I've said above, that only shows that he is sincere in wanting to get these policies passed. You say that his "words and actions have clearly improved the country," and I would vehemently disagree with that, though, once again, it's not pertinent to the conversation about his sincerity. Whether he's actually benefited the US or not does not affirm or deny his sincerity.
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And remember, no matter what you say I can simply say I don't believe you.
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